Conversations Are the Fundamental Unit of Change
Episode 17 :
Daniel Stillman
In this episode, Daniel Stillman inspired me with his definition of leadership. He defines leadership as “creating the conditions for transformative conversations”. We talk about the nine elements of his Conversation OS and how you can use them in your life and work.
“You are already designing your conversations. (Whether you know it or not.) Maybe you’re designing them for clarity, speed or profit. What happens if you designed your conversations to maximize meaning or connection? Where would you start? Good Talk will help you increase your conversational range and empower you to lead and facilitate a wider range of interactions in your work and life, from large gatherings and communities to your conversation with yourself.”
From his book, Good Talk: How to Design Conversations that Matter
Episode Notes
General
Conversations are the fundamental unit of change.
People establishing status and asking confrontational questions can be exhausting in conversations.
The speaker has a background in design and science and is interested in designing science experiences.
Facilitation is a valuable skill for shaping conversations and guiding group interactions.
Designing conversations requires understanding what is designable and controllable.
The conversation is about elements of a conversation operating system and creating a vulnerable environment.
Threading, turn-taking, and cadence are natural aspects of conversations.
Discussion about goals, agreements, and the importance of why and how.
Discussion about the impact of capitalism and neoliberalism on personal relationships.
Discussion about using conversations to affect change and produce something different.
Leadership is about creating conditions for transformative conversations and inviting others to show up.
Discussion about creating space for transformative conversation and facilitating it.
Discussion about the next phase of the business and the organization's goals.
Discussion about different types of therapy and communication techniques.
The leader should convene better conversations on an ongoing basis.
Discussion about creating psychological safety and openness in the workplace.
Understanding the dynamics behind 'can't' and 'won't' is important in public sector work.
Understanding power dynamics and stakeholder mapping can help guide conversations effectively.
Engaging stakeholders is important for successful system work
The OS is a powerful tool that anyone can use to effect change.
The speaker's work has evolved to focus on one-on-one work with leaders.
Transformative conversations and personal connections were discussed.
Open Questions
Exploring different ways to recontextualize the question 'What do you do?'
Struggle to engage with different mindsets, contributing to apathy
Differing opinions among stakeholders on the right course of action.
Discussion about appreciative inquiry and its application in designing conversations.
Ideas
Highlighting the importance of creating meaningful threads in conversations for effective communication.
Examples of different conversation styles: threading and storytelling.
Recognizing the importance of turn-taking, cadence, and thread continuity in conversations.
The interface and space can significantly impact the conversational cadence.
Recognizing the power of resistance and negative power in shaping conversations.
Exploration of the benefits of collaboration and the value of group contributions in product design.
Exploration of innate abilities and liberation from feeling trapped.
Next Steps
Coaching and teaching people who can't do something can be valuable.
Creating more spaces for meaningful conversations, one leader, one company at a time.
Notes generated by tl:dv, slightly edited by me. Daniel uses grain.com and below is the summary it generated of our discussion.
He discusses his current approach of tailoring his response based on the person he is talking to and engaging in a more curious and empathetic conversation
In workshops, Daniel explores what conversations are made of and what can be controlled or shifted
Daniel goes into more detail about turn-taking, threading, and cadence, and how they relate to the physical or visceral aspects of conversation
Daniel talks about the importance of goals and agreements in conversations, and how they relate to the concepts of "why" and “how"
Scott asks about using conversation to produce difference and affect change, and Daniel shares an anecdote about a men's work community he advises and facilitates called Everyman.
Daniel discusses the importance of creating the conditions for transformative conversations and defining leadership as the ability to do so
Daniel discusses the importance of identifying a bigger goal or vision to motivate change and dissolve barriers
Daniel talks about inviting people to empowered conversations and challenging their thinking
Daniel suggests that leaders should convene better conversations on an ongoing basis and bring in small changes to create more empathy and love
They discuss the power of small check-ins and being more human in conversations to create psychological safety and lower tension
Daniel emphasizes the importance of accepting all types of people in a group and coaching leaders to have honest conversations with difficult team members
He also talks about the toxicity of people who can but won't and the need for leaders to assess their team and make tough decisions about letting go of those who are not a good fit
Daniel talks about his work with leaders to help them transform their businesses from the inside out by having better conversations and creating spaces where everyone can fully express themselves
Links
Daniel on social media Linkedin, Instagram, and Twitter
Book Website for Good Talk: How to Design Conversations that Matter
The Conversation Factory, Daniel’s Conversation Laboratory
Design Thinking for Educators from IDEO
Open Space Technology User Guide
Man’s Search for Meaning by Vitkor Frankl
Alice Walker, “The most common way people give up their power is by thinking they don't have any.”
Danny Meyer episode on Tim Ferris podcast
Dick & Rick: A Visual Primer for Social Impact Design from C.U.P.
One Page/One Hour Manifesto from Matt LeMay
About Daniel Stillman
Daniel Stillman designs conversations for a living and insists that you actually do that too.
As an executive coach, he works with clients and organizations of all shapes and sizes (From Google to Visa, to name a few) to help them frame and sustain productive and collaborative conversations, deepen their facilitation skills, and lead them through the innovation process.
He’s the author of Good Talk: How to Design Conversations that Matter, a handbook for leaders looking to create change. His first book, The Paper Airplane Experiment and the 30 Second Elephant is about origami and teams and yes, it’s as strange as it sounds.
Daniel also hosts The Conversation Factory podcast where he interviews leaders, changemakers, and innovators on how they design the conversations in their work and lives.